disc brakes change my class?

[camry3sfe]

everyone who I've asked insists that if I put disc brakes on the rear for my car, that it will place me in SM. But I was just wondering, since I was reading about update/back date allowances in the rule book. All camry's even the 4-cyl camry's have discs on all four wheels now. Would that not permit me to install the discs and run in some other class (a slower class) other than SM? The disc brakes I want to install are off the same gen as mine, but v6 camry. it's a direct swap, and requires no alteration of any parts. Or for it to be an update/back date, would I have to get the discs from a newer camry 4-cyl?

All I know is these drums have got to go... they are pain in my *** everytime I need to do something to them.:headbutt: (its not all that often i have to do something to them, but I still hate them)

[lilred]

Honestly, its not worth the trouble from my understanding. Rears account for only what 15%-20% of your braking anyways. You would see a bigger improvement with better pads upfront. Besides drums weigh less and there is at least one company Ive seen that makes race pads for drums.

[Jason V]

Ok here is the deal with update backdate... first off you cannot use UD/BD in STS at all. UD/BD is aplicable in Street Prepared and SM. so for street prepared you can update backdate between any cars that are listed on the same line of the Street Prepared car listings (from the rule book avail online at scca.com) so if the V6 Camry is on the same line as your car in the SP index then yes you can swap the parts and most any other parts you wish and the car can stay in street prepared... make sure you read the rules for sp... or if you are staying in STS.. leave the drums on!!

BTW I agree the swap will have little performance gain....

[SeanB]

What Jason said...

Edit: what is your end goal with the Camry? Please don't say competitive autox car.

[SentraWV]

Aren't brakes free in STS, tho, apart from any update/backdate worries? Regardless, it's not really worth it for autocross. I know back in the Neon days Scott thought about it for a while, but putting discs on for drums didn't help stopping power and added a little weight, IIRC. On the other hand, I know it can be a pain in the butt to find performance brake shoes.

NP: Chandelier, Timecode

[SeanB]

Brakes are not free, you can do any rotor and pad but can't change the brake system.

[camry3sfe]

Edit: what is your end goal with the Camry? Please don't say competitive autox car.


My end goal for the camry is to have a fun car that I've spent time getting to know the ins and outs of. Eventually, yes, SM with an engine swap, but maybe long time from now. I just like doing things to the car, it's fun, except for dealing with the drum brakes, that's never been fun... For now, I just don't like the drums period, its not about the performance gained/lost. So I guess I could run street prepared if I they're in the same listing in app. A? that's good enough for me, I just don't want to be in SM :tongue:

edit: so I looked it up, for some reason camry (4cyl) is FSP and camry v6 (all years) is DSP car. doesn't really make sense to me. In the stock categories the 88-91 V6 camry is still an HS car. the 92+ is GS.

edit II: I think I see why, FSP has to be a 4-cyl engine period it looks like. Still, if I put in the disc brakes, could I then run DSP even though I have the 4 cyl still in it?

[SentraWV]

Brakes are not free, you can do any rotor and pad but can't change the brake system.

Sho 'nuff. That'll teach me to spout off without looking at the rule book first (or, as my dad puts it, go RTFM). :tko:

NP: The Who, Tommy

[Jason V]

edit: so I looked it up, for some reason camry (4cyl) is FSP and camry v6 (all years) is DSP car. doesn't really make sense to me. In the stock categories the 88-91 V6 camry is still an HS car. the 92+ is GS.

edit II: I think I see why, FSP has to be a 4-cyl engine period it looks like. Still, if I put in the disc brakes, could I then run DSP even though I have the 4 cyl still in it?

well no.... you can use any brakes from any year 4 cyl camry as long as they bolt right on...(ie no cutting or grinding ect...) if you use any parts from a v6 camry you are now in SM.. as it is not allowed via update backdate... if you had a v6 camry you could use any part from any year v6 as long as it was a bolt on... it may not make sense but that is the way it is.... now look at the Volkswagen listings in FSP and you can see where UD/BD can have a big effect... if you are doing this for fun then do whatever you want to the car and take the class you fall into... you will have no less fun in SM than FSP or STS... if you want to be competetive well that changes everyting... and in that case I would pick a car based on a carefull reading of the rules and researching past results ect...

[stupid-loud-subaru]

well no.... you can use any brakes from any year 4 cyl camry as long as they bolt right on...(ie no cutting or grinding ect...) if you use any parts from a v6 camry you are now in SM.. as it is not allowed via update backdate... if you had a v6 camry you could use any part from any year v6 as long as it was a bolt on... it may not make sense but that is the way it is.... now look at the Volkswagen listings in FSP and you can see where UD/BD can have a big effect... if you are doing this for fun then do whatever you want to the car and take the class you fall into... you will have no less fun in SM than FSP or STS... if you want to be competetive well that changes everyting... and in that case I would pick a car based on a carefull reading of the rules and researching past results ect...


what he said, ive been dragging up the rear of sm for ever now. to me its all about haveing fun

[AchTTung]

ive been dragging up the rear of sm for ever now.But not without a fight. :redface:

[Nathan]

You're in a good spot in STS now with your tires, Andy. There's no need to keep flip flopping around in classes. Sway bars, bushings, rear strut brace, DOT 5.1 fluid, better brake pads, and better seat restraints are just some of the things you can still do to "improve" your car and still stay in STS. I think a manual trans is going to be your best investment though.

[SeanB]

Sorry manual is straight back into SM.

[Nathan]

Sorry manual is straight back into SM.
To change a car that was originally auto into a manual puts it in SM? Even if you swap it all from a manual version of your car? That doesn't seem too fair. How could someone get an unfair edge like that?

[SeanB]

To change a car that was originally auto into a manual puts it in SM? Even if you swap it all from a manual version of your car? That doesn't seem too fair. How could someone get an unfair edge like that?

Weight...
ECU...
etc

Many little things... to be perfectly legal your car's specs must match the VIN for stock, ST* classes.

Locally, it doesn't matter in the end.

[ShortysTRM]

...that's what Miro did...?

[SeanB]

...that's what Miro did...?

Doesn't make it legal... locally you'd be a weenie to protest that.

I should stop being a rule prick, sorry I have a few different versions of the rule book out here trying to make sure my damn car is 100% legal and I don't come back with a DSQ.

[Nathan]

Miro, if any protests your car, you can drive mine. I have the exact same set up as him except I have more power. So if anyone thinks they can protest him to get an edge, Miro will be the one with the upper hand.