questions about coilovers

[camry3sfe]

hey everyone, some people on a forum that I often go to for help on my camry are getting together to do a group buy so that a company (K-sport) will agree to develop a coilover system for the 2nd gen camry. I think that this would is a great opportunity, because a lot of us 2nd gen camry people often find ourselves wishing there was more we could do for our cars suspension wise.

At any rate does anyone know much about this company? Are they good?
Second since they are building this from the ground up, what are the things I should ask for as far as specifications on dampening, spring rate, camber, and other adjustment items for autox.

Two of the guys on the forum just want it to give their cars a better sports feel to it, another one of the guys who has an st205 motor wants it to set up for drag racing, and I of course want them to set up my car for autox.

[SeanB]

Your car already has a coilover system.

What do you desire in your suspension?

Ride height adjustability, the ability to corner weight your car?

Or do you simply want stiffer springs?

Don't you already have upgraded shocks?

Simply call up Ground Control, give them your make and model and see what they have. If they don't have anything, give them your shock outer diameter and they can give you something.

If all you want is stiffer springs, just get something off the shelf.

[gtfour77]

Andrew,
It depends on how expensive these coilovers will be. I have heard of K SPort on the alltrac forums but I don't think they are anywhere near the top in quality.
You can easily build your suspension for pretty cheap if you use yellow koni's and some coilover sleeves...then you have a choice of the spring rate, diameter and lenght....that's exactly what I did on my alltrac. There are even "trading" forums for coiover springs where you can just sell or trade your springs for whatever different spring you want. I know hondatech has one...
You can even get a set of cheaper performance shocks (AGX or Tokico) and do it for less... I bet your strut housings ae very similar to mine in which case it's pretty simple to do conversions... (fit alltrac inserts into yours and do a conversion on the rears where you can use inserts instead of buying a whole new strut)...all you need is a welder and a bit of patience and ingenuity...;)

[SentraWV]

Simply call up Ground Control, give them your make and model and see what they have. If they don't have anything, give them your shock outer diameter and they can give you something.

Do they have a database of proper rates and such for different models? Hmm, I'll have to file info that away somewhere. :biggrin:

NP: Speed WC Touring race from Utah - wow! :f1:

[camry3sfe]

well word on my camry suspension says that st202 fronts are fit-able to the sv21, and the st18*(but not 5) rears are fit-able. Right now I'm thinking that the k-sport setup if the group buy goes through would be pretty ideal, and I'd be happy with that till the day the camry makes its way to a junkyard or something. They're estimating around 1,200 dollars. The main thing is though, I don't think I will be having the money to join in on their group buy. Not making good enough money so far this summer to do anything :(

I do have "upgraded" springs and struts already. the gr2s aren't adjustable though, and the lowering springs are progressive rate, and not all that great at controling the body roll on the camry. yes, they are *much* better at controling the body roll compared to what I had last year, but still the springs are made more for comfort on the road rather than performance. I'm thinking the way to get my body roll in check for me though really lies in getting a massive rear sway bar, and a bigger front. I'd still like to get the coilovers if I can, adjustable dampening, ride hieght, and camber all sound rather nice. Not to mention it will be pretty much a straight bolt on item.

I dunno, I'd just thought I'd ask you guys because you'd have good advice :)

At anyrate what do you guys think the "ideal" spring rate would be for my car for autox?

[Jason V]

The ideal rate would be much more than you would want to drive on day to day....(wild guess of 400 lbs front 2 to 300 rear?? on the soft side!!) IMHO I would keep what you have and find the biggest front bar you can, use "crash" bolts to get more negative camber up front... then if needed get a bigger rear bar... in the end those parts will cost you less than the coil over setup thay may or may not be any better than what you have now...

[SeanB]

I am curious JasonV, wouldn't a larger front bar make the car push more? Wouldn't it make more sense to get the largest rear bar and nothing up front.

I am running 430f and 500r... its NOT FUN... my back begins to hurt like crazy after an hour.

[SentraWV]

Big sways can do some of the job of springs, so big on the front and bigger on the rear could help keep the car flat and minimize body roll. Also, keep in mind that the no front/big rear setup is designed to get the car to rotate easily, which isn't necessarily the best setup for every driving style. I prefer a more neutral setup, myself.

NP: Marillion, La Gazza Ladra

[johnnytavo]

Sean, when did you put those gc's on?

[gtfour77]

Sean,. Jason did say rear bar...you are right though, front bar would make the car push without proper rear bar... Andrew, what Jason said, if you want your car to handle you need to sacrifice the ride quality... I'd say on a heavier car like yours 500 and more on the front and maybe 400 and up for the rear...
You have a good street setup now though, you should get as much seat time as you can for now...wait and save money for either a good setup for your car or save money for a dedicated autocross car and keep the camry as a daily driver...;)

[Jason V]

I did say big front bar... because the car has semi soft springs the big front bar will keep body roll in check (as Jon said).. less roll up front will keep the relative lack of camber from hurting the car.. we are trying to maximize the front grip by minimizing camber loss through body roll... a big front bar does not always result in a push but could in the end add in so much front grip that the car is well balanced and may not even need a bigger rear bar.. only testing will tell... I would guess on the camry with the intrax springs just find the biggest darn front a rear bars you can and go for it... adjustable shocks and what not can make the car slower unless you know how to tune everything correctly (and this assumes the valving is decent)... I will always hesitate to buy double adjustable shocks because it makes it way to easy to screw up the car!! keep the setup super simple and just work on driving.. the number one reason a car will push is the driver.. (BTW I just happen to know that a former national championship winning FSP civic ran intrax springs and huge swaybars)

[ShortysTRM]

I had a 1 1/8" front bar, a 1" rear bar, TRW high-rate progressive rear springs made for towing and hauling heavy loads, a front strut bar, and lots of front camber. The setup didn't work perfectly, as I could lift my inside rear wheel about 9" off the ground or drag the front bumper on command, but it did exactly what I wanted it to. It was definitely a ghetto setup and the back sat higher than it did from the factory. I still never figured out how to get the most out of a steady-state corner with that setup because I always dialed back expecting it to understeer, but it really never did. I just hope that the new springs don't mess that awkward balance up. The car pushed horribly until I got got the new tires and camber. I really think the camber helped worlds. Instead of folding over, the tire actually bit. It also lets me run lower pressures overall.

If you don't have much camber, try to get a good 2.5 degrees or so and get the car to 0 toe. If you drive thousands of miles, I wouldn't do it, but it hasn't been bad on my Grand Am ever since I got the toe out of it. I had to put 2 camber bolts on each side to get as much as I have, but it helps a whole lot on FWD cars. I'm sure that the rear sway bar helped a lot, too, especially since my car didn't have one at all from the factory. I paid $149 for each of my Addco sway bars from either Summit or Jeg's, which isn't much in the long run.

[gtfour77]

I did say big front bar... because the car has semi soft springs the big front bar will keep body roll in check (as Jon said)..

Ok, I think it's just been a long day...heh Didn't mean to confuse anybody...