class change

[suzbndt]

I put a turbo back exhaust on and added reflash. Where does that put a 2008 STI?

[mfran184]

Are you running street tires or stickies? With street tires(140 treadwear or higher) the ecu reflash lands you in STU because the STI(model) is not allowed in STX. If you're on stickies the reflash lands you in B street prepared( BSP). The Exg is legal in either class. You do not have to run STU if you are on street tires but you can't run STU on stickies.

[MasterBlaster]

I'm assuming the reflash turned up the boost (most reflashes involving TBE do). In that case I think you'll be in BSP like me.

[Jason V]

Yep... unless STU rules changed, Boost must be stock, allowing a reflash that only alters timing and fuel maps. BSP is the right class... a fun one too ( BSP was the first class I ever ran!!)

[RobbieNelson]

Yep... unless STU rules changed, Boost must be stock, allowing a reflash that only alters timing and fuel maps.

With all the ECU hackers out there, this will surely lead to a little controversy. The Evo's can now switch between two sets of maps by using various ECU inputs (intercooler spray button, throttle position, etc.). These maps include boost control. Is there a rule to allow protesters to pull the ECU code from a competitors car? A stock Evo, running high octane gas with a reflash could see as much as a 10% jump in HP. How would anyone know? The situation is compounded with switchable maps. The only way to know for sure is to pull the ECU code and have someone who knows how to read it. Once the code has been hacked, it can be very nasty to read/decode.

Interesting topic. Are fully hacked ECUs legal in SM? I've always assumed so. Not that mines hacked or anything:wink:.

[Jason V]

With all the ECU hackers out there, this will surely lead to a little controversy. The Evo's can now switch between two sets of maps by using various ECU inputs (intercooler spray button, throttle position, etc.). These maps include boost control. Is there a rule to allow protesters to pull the ECU code from a competitors car? A stock Evo, running high octane gas with a reflash could see as much as a 10% jump in HP. How would anyone know? The situation is compounded with switchable maps. The only way to know for sure is to pull the ECU code and have someone who knows how to read it. Once the code has been hacked, it can be very nasty to read/decode.

Interesting topic. Are fully hacked ECUs legal in SM? I've always assumed so. Not that mines hacked or anything:wink:.

This is pretty much why boost changes are now legal in SP classes.. not sure how they handle it in STX or STU....

I am NO expert on any of the ST rules.. but

in SP classes ... turbo and some other turbo system hardware must be stock, but induction system in general inc ecu is unlimited inc boost changes. This is how you end up with rabbits that have individual throttle bodies and electromotive EFI... on a motor with stock cams!!

In SM any turbo any ECU, standalone system or carb... ect.

[ShortysTRM]

Would it not depend on size, location, and functionality of his catalytic converter? Aka whether it works or not...

[TimMaddox]

I have kicked around the idea of getting a Cobalt SS and there is a lot of debate with those guys (turbo version, not SC version) about what is legal when messing with turbo boost. Many of those guys run the GM stage 1 chip/reflash (GMS1) that changes the stock 260 bhp/260 tq to about 280 hp/320 tq.

Those For being legal: with GMS1 they are legal in Street Touring (STX) because it doesn't "directly" increase boost - of course it does increase boost "indirectly".
The changes from a GMS1 are all "indirectly" related to boost -- they directly change peak RPM (which can potentially add turbo RPM – i.e. boost) and the fuel flow vs air flow ratios (which can potentially add turbo RPM – i.e. boost). Apparently there is nothing in the documentation or published data from GM that speaks to directly modifying the turbo and no valid tests that demonstrate significant boost increases – just the seat of the pants feeling that the boost has risen, and looking at the not very accurate boost gauge.

Against: Other guys say they are also knowingly altering boost, which is not legal for ST.

For: It's a 'sensor' mod and a computer reflash, both legal within SP rules -you're not modifying the turbo, you're changing the computer settings that handle airflow, spark timing and fuel.
SCCA Rules states in 14.10 F that “…no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted. Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible, but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically, is strictly prohibited.”
Replace two sensors (OK) and modified the computer (also OK) -you haven't done anything to the turbo -you didn't install a boost controller, you didn't fiddle with the waste gate settings, you haven't added a bigger turbo or a second turbo -you haven't modified the boost.

Against: Wouldn’t boost change via ECU fall under... altering/modifying boost electronically?

For: Yes, but you're not changing the factory boost controls to allow higher than factory boost - you're merely locking in the maximum STOCK boost allowable

Against: that’s altering boost electronically.

For: flash doesn't 'control' the boost, it changes air and fuel flow. If those changes 'incidentally' cause the boost to rise under certain circumstances, then it's OK.

And on and on they go.

Gee, maybe I will just keep the simple car I got. I always thought adding boost was when my grandma put the phone book under her ass to drive…..

[Jason V]

In Street Prepared... boost changes are legal.. the turbo it's self must be stock... Emissions stuff is a non issue because it can be removed in SP.

Now in Street Touring classes that is not the case... at least a few years ago, boost creep was ok... ie as long as the wastegate opened at the same pressure as stock you were good, even if other settings allowed boost to "creep" above actual stock level..... DO NOT take my word for this... as I do not follow the latest in ST rules.... FYI...Tim, when rules are fuzzy like this people tend to protest themselves at Nationals and then the results of that Protest creates precedent for the future....

[Jason V]

Tim... I think the not legal guys are wrong... and here is why. Any EFI car is allowed the same modifications as an older car that has carbs.... so if I can alter the fuel (jet changes) and timing (you know ... that strange tool with strobing lights)... on my 65 Mustang then those same changes are legal on my 2010 winged wonder... all the changes you mentioned are legal on a non boosted car.. and thus legal on a turbo car. Altering the boost signal to the ECU or changing a wastegate spring, boost control, ... and welcome to SP... change the turbo and welcome to Street Modified.

[TimMaddox]

I don't doubt that, but don't get on the Cobalt forums or you will instigate another 50 replies of "did not" and "did so"

More and more I like the simplicity of my normally-perspirated car. Or is that normally-asspirated? Street touring fits me better, by definition I don't really have to go fast, just "tour" - like what my parents do between church and Bob Evans on Sunday morning.

[mfran184]

I put a turbo back exhaust on and added reflash. Where does that put a 2008 STI?

SO......:headbutt: have we answerd your question?

[suzbndt]

I think I am now more confused. I am running a Cobb AP stage 2 OFS map, and a 3" turboback with no cat. All other stuff is still stock down to the air filter.

[MasterBlaster]

You'll be in BSP, the stage 2 map turns the boost up.

[mfran184]

Yep, your definatly in BSP! :clap:

[suzbndt]

Thanks. BSP it is at least there will be a couple of cars in the class. Chris Furby just did a cobb ap and 265/35/18 NT05 on 18*9.5 rims so both of us should be in BSP

[MasterBlaster]

Looking forward to other folks running BSP. My car is getting lonely lmao